Zooming in on Zuma – a conversation with Billy Talbot, Crazy Horse‘s longtime drummer

UNCUT: What was Neil’s mood going into Zuma following the break-up with Carrie and the CSNY ‘Doom’ tour?

BILLY TALBOT: My main memory of Zuma is being in Malibu in some bar having a beer with Neil and talking about how he was happy that we were going to do some recording. He was happy about that, and that’s all he was thinking about. I don’t think he was thinking much about Crosby, Stills & Nash at that point. He was past that. Neil is always moving forward. As for Carrie, it wasn’t spoken. It was like any other gang. You don’t speak about things when you are trying to get past them – you try to have a good time, but you don’t moan and groan because that’s not how to get past things. If you do any moaning and groaning, you do it by yourself. 

What was it about Poncho that made you think he’d work for Crazy Horse?

He had a simple new attitude towards music. He wasn’t somebody who had been playing music with everybody always telling him how great he was or anything like that. He always loved the music, he loved playing and he loved making music. He wasn’t trying to be a star in any way. He wasn’t not trying to be a star, he just wasn’t thinking in that way and that’s what I liked. So I asked him to come and join us somehow. He came to my house, we played together a bit, then I invited Ralph and Neil down and we all played and it was fun. That’s all we could ask for, as Danny had passed.

Was there a point where you realised this was the new Crazy Horse?

We didn’t talk about this being Crazy Horse, it all just happened. Neil went to Chicago and invited all three of us to join him – me and Ralph and Poncho. I said we should bring him as it would work, and we did and it did – it worked. When the record [Zuma] was released eventually, we called it Neil Young And Crazy Horse, but we weren’t thinking about that at the moment. We were just trying to get back on track. Danny passing was a real blow. That was what we’d been doing for years. Ralph and Danny and I had been traipsing around as a vocal group, then decided to start playing instruments. Then we got together with Neil and just as we were really getting into it, Danny passed. It was a disruption to this whole force that had been moving forward, so we had to regroup and find our way. We did, fortunately. I guess it was in the cards. It just gelled – but like anything that comes together, it was one of those things. 

How did Poncho change the sound of Crazy Horse?

Poncho is another person, so it’s bound to be different. That’s how it is in life. Each one of us is unique. Especially in a group when you have three or four guys. Danny was one person, he was himself and he’d been great with us, and now he was gone and Poncho came into the picture and he was also himself. If there was any change to the Horse that was it, the new element. 

Tell me about the vibe at Briggs’ beach house – it sounds quite wild?

It might sound wild and at times it might have been a little wild, but we were more interested in the music because Neil was taking us in that direction. He really wanted to do what he wanted to do – and he wanted us to do it with him. He didn’t lose sight of that picture and what he wanted to create. He kept the partying to a minimum, so I don’t know where these stories all came from. 

Who else was around the house during the sessions?

James “Sandy” Mazzeo was there, he did the cover. He was in the house with me and Ralph and Poncho and two or three others. We were staying on the beach in Malibu, you can’t complain about that. The weather wasn’t the best, it was foggy in the morning, but I was a young man away from my family and all these things taken together are kind of like a formula for adventure and it all shows up in the music. 

How did you get such a good sound from the small room you recorded in?

When we record with Neil, we don’t think about leakage that much. What we wanted to do on Zuma was play together in the same room and whoever was engineering had to find a way to record that. We played together as a band and it’s better for any band to play in the same room than separately. 

“It just gelled”: Frank Sampedro (right) with Young and Billy Talbot in Copenhagen, March 16, 1976

Visitors: Bob Dylan; (below) Rod Stewart and Britt Ekland

Why a house?

When you go into a studio, you are there for one reason – to record. That immediately puts a mood on it. When you are in a house, you aren’t thinking the same. You set up and you play and that’s the best thing for a musician to be thinking. Not that you’re about to record, but that you’re about to play. That was good for Crazy Horse. Neil could go into the studio with CSNY and big-time producers with reputations, he could handle that – but it affected Crazy Horse in a detrimental way. Music is music, and once it’s released you can listen to it and it doesn’t matter if it was recorded in a house or a studio. But in the house, we could be ourselves. 

“It’s better for any band to play in the same room” 

BILLY TALBOT

How about the individual songs?

I really remember “Cortez…” because we were doing it and the power went out. We kept playing because we didn’t realise the power was out – it was working in our room, it was in the other room where they were recording. The power came back on and we were still playing. It went off about halfway through the song and came back for the last two-thirds. We then stuck it all together but there was always this missing verse. Then when we did the last tour, Neil reintroduced it. That was the first time I’d heard it since Malibu. I don’t know how he found it, but somehow he did. We played it live and it’s back in the song. 

Was Neil working out some of his issues with the break-up on songs like “Stupid Girl” and “Barstool Blues”?

“Barstool Blues” maybe, but not “Stupid Girl”. I think “Stupid Girl” was just an interesting idea for a song and he was having fun with that one. “Barstool Blues” was definitely a reflection of that time, being in a bar alone or maybe with your mates and basically thinking about not being with your woman any more. That’s a state that a person finds themself in in certain circumstances.

GIJSBERT HANEKROOT/REDFERNS; VINCE MAGGIORA/SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE VIA GETTY IMAGES; HELMUT REISS/UNITED ARCHIVES VIA GETTY IMAGES 

Do you remember Bob Dylan popping in?

I remember Bob popping in and then popping out. He jammed on a song or two and I did my best without knowing what the song was or anything about it. With Neil we would discuss the changes. We might play simply, but we’d know the changes and that’s important. Bob didn’t tell us the changes, so I am sure it was a unique experience for him as well as for us. 

How about Rod Stewart?

He was interested in seeing if Neil had a song he could do. So Neil played one of our tracks to him and because he wasn’t interested in Rod Stewart doing a cover of his, he played something from the record he liked but knew Rod Stewart would never do – it might have been “Drive Back”. It was a little odd, but he had a very beautiful woman with him [Britt Ekland] and that’s the main thing I remember. He then had a big hit with “I Don’t Want To Talk About It”, Danny’s song. He might have got it at that session. 

At what point did you realise you were making a record?

Whenever we recorded, we thought of it as a record that would be released, but we didn’t really think about that – it’s about what we are doing in the moment. That sort of stuff doesn’t get to me – what is going to happen to it afterwards. I am trying to concentrate on what the hell is going on, so I can put myself into whatever I am playing on the bass. 

What was the Northern California Coastal Bar Tour like?

We went to these places that were dark outside then lit up inside. People were surprised to see us. When we played it was fun, because it kept the music alive. It wasn’t like this thing you’re supposed to do because you’re up on a stage with thousands of people waiting to hear you. It was nothing like that. We played these spaces where it was a surprise we were there, so the whole feel of the performance was in a different place for everybody. I don’t think we made money playing those bars, but we had fun. 

Do you think of Zuma as a key album for the Horse?

Back in those days, it was just what we were doing. When you look back, that’s one thing, but when you are in the midst of things, you’re just trying to make sense of the moment and what’s happening. Poncho came in and it started working and that was good, that’s all we knew. We weren’t thinking beyond that. When I look back, I feel it is a really good record. What we have done every time, on Zuma or anything else, is a coming together of the band and each one is about its own time and the music that represents that time. 

INTERVIEW: PETER WATTS